27 Years in HVAC, Running a NJ Shop & Building a Business That Lasts with Robert Hoerter

Northern New Jersey is a different HVAC world from the South. You have hot humid summers, genuine cold winters, steam and hot water boilers alongside forced air systems, heat pumps being pushed hard by decarbonization incentives, and utility rates that swing enough to make the gas versus electric conversation genuinely complicated. Robert has been operating in that market for 27 years and runs DB Heating and Cooling at 70% residential, 30% light commercial — with a specific cutoff on larger commercial work where he personally has to be on the job for it to get done right.

He built his customer base primarily through word of mouth, local Facebook groups and community mom and dad pages, and aggressive local sponsorship of town events, youth sports, and public education dinners. The return on sponsorship has been consistently good. He is also now getting into video content — which is how he originally connected with Willie.

Robert opened a conversation that resonated across the entire room: more parents than ever are coming to him asking about getting their kids into the trades. AI is shaking them loose from the assumption that a business degree or computer technology path is safe. When you are starting college today, you genuinely do not know what the job market looks like in four years for lower-level white collar work that is getting automated.

Robert's position — and Mark echoed it — is that high schools need to narrow kids down earlier on what they are actually good at, and trades should be a first-class option at that age, not an afterthought. Most of what is being taught in college was designed for a world that no longer exists for most of those majors. The trades, by contrast, are not going anywhere. Nobody is sending an AI to crawl your attic.

Robert started in the union working on major absorption systems, chillers, and large commercial equipment — learning the trade when wiring diagrams were the primary tool and there was no technology to look anything up. He describes it with clear-eyed appreciation: struggling through problems without help is how he built his process knowledge.

He also points out the flip side of the technology era — younger techs go straight to tech and never stumble through anything. They are too afraid to make a mistake. And Robert is direct that some of that is on owners. You have to be okay with people making mistakes. If you are not making mistakes, you are not learning.

A viewer asked whether reclaiming 454B and recharging with 410A violates EPA rules. Robert's answer was simple: he has not done it and is not doing it. He stocked up on 454B and R32 before season and has not been caught short. His reasoning for staying away from the reclaim-and-recharge play: he does not yet know what happens when those systems start breaking down. The outcomes are just starting to show up.

His principle across the board is to cover his company first. Anything he touches, he makes sure there is documented backing for what he did. If you go down the refrigerant swap route, put a tag on the unit, note what is in it, and make sure your liability picture is clear before you do it.

When the 454B shortage hit last season, a lot of contractors who had been running Goodman and other R454B equipment were scrambling. Robert's approach going into this season was simple: buy both. He stocked R32 and R454B before the heat arrived. He runs a lot of Daikin equipment which uses R32, so he was already holding inventory of both refrigerants before the market tightened up.

He noted that in his area R32 is currently running slightly cheaper than 454B — another reason to diversify which equipment lines you stock and sell. The contractors who had diversified their equipment suppliers before the shortage were in a completely different position than the ones who had to call around begging.

One of the most important operational lessons Robert shared: there are jobs you should turn down, especially when you are busy. He described a current situation — a client with chiller systems and a contractor who got involved in something they should not have touched during a slow winter, and now it is a legal situation.

His test: if you were at medium business — not slow, not slammed — would you even consider this job? If the answer is no, the answer is no regardless of what time of year it is. The slow season is when contractors do work outside their competence area because they need the revenue. Those jobs become the liability stories that follow a company for years.

Robert's strategy for R22 systems that are low on charge and not ready for replacement yet: fill them with a drop-in like 422B — new 22 — and sign a contract that the replacement is coming. He makes the customers aware they are getting a temporary solution and locks in the replacement job at the same time.

The threshold he uses: if the system has half a charge or less, he is not filling it. He knows he will be back tomorrow with a disappointed client on the phone. But if they have a reasonable amount of refrigerant still in the system and just need to be made comfortable until he can schedule the full replacement, the band-aid plus contract approach keeps the customer happy, keeps his crew scheduled efficiently, and avoids losing the job to a competitor who will just charge it with whatever.

Brian asked the question Robert took seriously: what is the hardest part of running your business? His answer was not equipment, not supply houses, not cash flow. It was two things — family balance and making sure his guys feel appreciated.

On the family side, he is honest: there are times of year when balance is not even an option. You have to have a team behind you at home who understands that. On the appreciation side, he makes a point of giving guys time off in the summer even though summer is peak season in the Northeast — because that is the only time the weather is actually nice enough to take a vacation. The supply house issues are real — wrong line sets, wrong sizes, miscommunication — but those are solvable problems. The human side of the business is the one that takes the most active management.

Robert installs a suction line filter dryer on every air conditioning system he puts in — not heat pumps, but every AC install. His practice: flush the line set, install the dryer, and then check it on return visits. If the dryer tests acidic on a burnout job, that tells him something important about the state of the system. But even on a standard install where there is no burnout, the dryer goes in.

His reasoning: he has had dryers plug up and catch things that would have killed the compressor had they not been there. Mark asked whether he pulls them after install since suction dryers are not supposed to stay in permanently. Robert's answer: in his market they stay in for life. He monitors pressure drop across them and if there is ever a meaningful pressure drop, he addresses it — but in practice they hold and they earn their place every time one plugs with contamination.

Willie asks every guest this question. Robert's answer was unexpectedly personal: stop worrying so much at night. Early in his career he was running major jobs — 60-ton rooftop makeup air units, crane work in West New York right next to Manhattan, coordinating with police, blocking roads, dealing with building management — and he would not sleep the night before.

Now, 27 years in, he looks back and knows those jobs went fine. The worry did not protect them. It just cost him sleep. Willie validated it immediately: the people running a business and losing sleep are the ones who genuinely care. The ones who sleep through chaos probably should not be trusted with your company. But if he could send a message back, it would be: you are going to be okay. Take it back a notch and get some rest.

Robert brought up something most HVAC owners handle reactively: attic safety. He stocks about 80 sheets of 3/4 plywood at his shop at any given time and includes plywood in every attic install quote as a standard line item. The ask to the customer: how much do you store up here? Do you want a few more sheets? Your Christmas tree could go up here. His real reason is simple — if he puts down plywood, his guys are not falling through.

He described a job where a tech stepped through a ceiling on a five-ton coil change on a hot day. The tech was fine, but a few feet to the left and it would have been a 20-foot drop. Mark had the same thing happen to him on a new construction walkway with a missing board section. These are not freak events. They are predictable and preventable with plywood. Robert also noted that asking customers about the attic plywood situation is a small separation from competitors who just go up, do the job, and leave.

A viewer who had left HVAC installation to start a duct cleaning company asked the group's thoughts. Robert bought a Nikro pull-push system years ago and sold duct cleaning with his installs for a while. He stopped. The problem: his installers and technicians were spending the day on a duct cleaning job instead of doing the installs he was paying them for. The income from the cleaning was not offset by what he was losing by pulling those techs off installs. The machine is still sitting in his shop.

Willie had the same experience. Both refer duct cleaning out to companies they trust and sub it. Mark offered the complementary advice: if you are starting or running a duct cleaning business, partner with HVAC shops that are too busy to do it themselves. You become their go-to sub. And make sure you are offering aero-seal duct sealing as an upsell — that is where the margin is and it pairs naturally with the cleaning service.

Willie ran an experiment the weekend before the show: called six or seven large HVAC companies asking about tune-ups. Every single one was under $100. One was free. Mark named what this is — a loss leader. The company is not trying to make money on the maintenance visit. They are buying access to your house. Once they are there, a commission-only tech has to make a sale to justify the trip and the company's cost structure. That is not a maintenance. That is an inspection designed to identify the most convincing reason to sell you a new system.

Robert described the pattern he sees constantly: customers who called a competitor for a $49 tuneup and end up with a $19,000 system quote, no explanation of what was actually wrong, just a recommendation to replace. When he gets there for a second opinion, the system is fine. The lesson is not that you should charge $49 — it is that you should understand the game your competitors are playing so you can explain to your customers why your pricing is what it is.

This is the advice that every new contractor needs to hear before they spend a dollar. Mark laid it out plainly: Home Advisor, Angie's List, Thumbtack — they are all the same model. They sell your lead to ten of your competitors simultaneously. You are all racing to call the same person who is just looking for the lowest price. You still pay for the lead whether you get the job or not. And once you are in their system, they never stop calling to upgrade your package.

Robert confirmed he tried Angie's List when he started his business and learned the lesson fast. The way he grew — and still grows — is by going to local businesses, delis, Dunkin Donuts, the car wash, Home Depot near the thermostats, and dropping cards. That works. Mark added the history: Home Advisor became Angie's (after a $7 million lawsuit for bad practices, the company just rebranded) and the model never changed.

Willie had recently met with a solar company that is getting into HVAC financing via a leasing model: 10 to 12-year contracts, repair-free during the term, with an option to lease a new system or buy out at the end. Robert engaged with it seriously. His take: for high-net-worth clients who want to run their personal finances on a monthly predictable basis — think car leases — it actually makes sense.

The equipment reliability concerns of the current era make a strong case for it. When a Carrier or Lennox variable speed is going to cost $1,500 or more for an OEM motor at year 13, knowing your monthly payment is fixed and the repairs are covered changes the math for certain buyers. Robert noted he is personally halfway tempted to lease his own system as an HVAC contractor — which says something about where equipment reliability has gone.

The group spent significant time on a reality every contractor is navigating: OEM replacement parts are pricing systems out of repair and into replacement faster than ever. Robert described a 13-year-old variable speed 5-ton Carrier system where the OEM motor quote came back from his office at a number that made him call the customer to apologize. He ended up telling them to call Carrier directly and ask why.

He is now using aftermarket service motors on some of those jobs — which saves the customer money but requires his techs to know how to program and set up a non-OEM motor correctly. Mark brought up an 80% efficiency Carrier furnace with an induced draft motor running $850 at cost. Willie confirmed Lennox is just as bad. The practical outcome: at $1,500 for a motor on a 12-year-old system, you are not really competing with repair pricing anymore. You are competing with replacement pricing and the customer knows it.

Robert described taking over a 318-unit apartment complex where the installing company — from out of state — had sent a van full of guys with R410A during the last months of the warranty period, charging every unit to get out from under the warranty before they closed their doors. He went back unit by unit and found overcharged systems with every service valve in the building leaking. 150 suction valves replaced. They had not even pulled the pins in some of them.

Willie connected this to what he sees constantly in Charlotte new construction: companies that come in from out of state, do a whole subdivision, give six months of labor warranty, and are gone. The phone number is disconnected or the company was sold. The homeowner who calls for service at year two has no recourse. That is the opportunity for you — but only if you show up and do the job right the first time.

Robert raised something that surprised the room: certain Mitsubishi systems now require 24 hours of power-on before the system can be started up for the first time. The reasoning is crankcase heater warmup, possibly oil migration during shipping. Robert confirmed Mitsubishi's tech support held the line on it even when he pushed back.

His workaround: he has a dedicated technician whose job is to go back the day after install and do the official commissioning. Willie noted he could not operationally hang with that in peak season when the house needs air today. Robert acknowledged the conflict — it works in 70-degree spring weather, but in 90-degree July it is a different conversation with the homeowner.

Robert and Willie both pushed back hard on the industry trend of companies expecting install crews to complete two systems in a day on piece rate. Robert is not doing it. You cannot pull a vacuum properly, verify the charge, program the equipment, document the startup, and leave a clean job behind at two units per crew per day. The companies doing it are paying $400 per unit and the quality shows when the next contractor shows up behind them.

Robert described going to a job where the air handler was hanging with one corner 18 inches lower than the other — unit strut just hanging there. The installing company was not answering the phone. He also pointed out: when you rush a Mitsubishi or Daikin startup, you find out later on a callback when something is not right that a 45-minute proper commissioning would have caught.

Robert told the story that should end every argument about whether boots-on-the-ground marketing works. Early in his business he was at a supply house running down a capacitor or contact. A man walked in — looked like a homeowner — and asked for some service help. The counter guy had an attitude. Robert watched the man turn to leave and stopped him. Asked what he needed help with. Followed him 15 miles to his location.

Walked into an apartment complex with 218 units. Spent the whole week fixing 32 of them. Did 12 system replacements. Two to three weeks later the head manager handed him 12 additional properties. He worked 80 to 90 hours a week after that to build the company around what that single conversation opened up. One supply house counter interaction. One decision to say something instead of nothing.

Julia asked about realtors. Robert works with six or seven regularly and considers them a strong source. His angle: when a realtor needs a fast estimate to save a deal from falling apart, he goes. He has even done free walk-throughs for long-standing realtor relationships because the deal that closes is worth far more than the hour he spent.

Willie added the principle he has followed with realtors: align with the buyer's agent, not the seller's. The seller wants a patch job to get to closing. The buyer wants to know the truth. If you can tell the buyer what they actually have and give them the real picture, that buyer becomes your customer when they move in. Robert also described going to open houses early in his career and putting his sticker directly on the boiler, the condenser, anywhere that the next owner would see his name the first time they had a problem.

The final question of the night was how often the group runs Manual J calculations. Robert's answer: 100%. Every single install. He uses Right Suite and is actively evaluating Conduit Tech — the iPad LiDAR load calculation tool Mark had introduced in a previous episode. Robert said he has been back and forth with the Conduit Tech team and just has not had time to sit down and go through it yet.

Mark reiterated what he has said before: once you use it on a real job, you will not go back. The combination of a real load calc and being able to show the customer on the iPad exactly where the ductless head is going on their actual wall makes the sale faster and kills the competitive comparison before it starts.